A new post! Semi-liveblog of TyC Sports Boxing 11/29

I'm doing this on the fly as I watch it post HBO boxing high. 

DIEGO LEDESMA is in the ring in our opening bout. He is 6-3 and came in to some Iron Maiden song I don't recognize. If I don't know it, that means it is new, and I fear change, so it is bad. His opponent has a hype video even and some funny tattoos. He is Hugo Chavez, I am told. I think. Or that's someone else's name. People in the crowd clap during a fast cut. He has bad highlights. Oh, it is DIEGO CHAVES, pro one year, 22 years of age. Record is 4-0 with 4KOs. I have a feeling about this one.

REPLAY OF GLOVES BEING TOUCHED. TYC SPORTS IS YOUR HOME FOR ACTION

Chaves lacks defense and throws really nice left hooks to the body. I would like to see more of him already. They are those glorious kind of left hooks that you only ever see in kick boxing when like Lebanner throws them. You know the kind, with all the leverage and stuff. He does, however, lack Lebanner's wonky and disgusting nose. My fiancee hates his nose. Even I find it physically repulsive. As great a figure as he is, I can never root for him to win the GP unless he gets it fixed. Or maybe if he promised to retire and have plastic surgery?

While I typed, the guy who is supposed to lose was knocked down into the ropes and given a standing 8. Oh well. I can rewind it. I have the powar (holla dude on kaiju that was "fat powar" you were my fav that was not andrew). Upon closer inspection, it was a standing 8 count. God I hate that. Figures Argentina still has it. Second round starts after some fastforwarding and the guy drops the mouthpiece even before getting hit. This is a part of the world where they whistle for displeasure. I think I like it more than happy whistling. This fight annoys me because it continues to exist, and as I type that sentence, the dude who should lose is dropped and can't beat the count. KNOCK OUT KNOCK OUT KNOCK OUT says the announcer man who is losing his shit while everyone in the gymnasium is just okay with it. Diego Chaves has t-shirts with a very simple glove logo and some sort of cartoonish bubble font. Low overhead means low costs to the commoners.

I admit interest as to how TyC Sports pays their bills. There are never commercials for anything but TyC programming. Apparently they are big in their homeland. MOLITOR/CABALLERO highlights. My compadre here is cry. TYC suggests I watch Sportiva, which is some sort of poor Sportscenter or something. I shall pass. I am reminded that I did watch TV Peru's election night coverage. There were two people in a small studio with a black curtain and a flat screen TV looking at like electoral-vote.com. Seating is shown on the floor: It is white plastic lawn chairs. The stackable kind. PROMO VIDEO for Casanova/Acosta. I will go on a limb and say that is the main event. 

And it is! Hector Casanova and Ruben Acosta is the headliner (?). RUBEN ACOSTA prefers the sound of new AC/DC it seems. Pro 6 years, he's 19-3-5 with 5 KOs. Oh, he's about 165lbs, so I guess this is a super middleweight fight. I didn't bother trying to do conversions with the prior fight but I think it was featherweights or something. HECTOR CASANOVA comes in second and has a title belt making him super middleweight champion of Argentina. Pro 12 years, his record is a more lengthy 22-11-0 with 9KOs. Having seen Argentine 168lb fighters previously (notably Valentin Antonio Ochoa), I expect little.

The fight starts and Acosta almost falls over on the ring canvas. It is because the corner is wet. Clearly, needs more Shamwow. Casanova is like twice as big as this dude. I'm guessing Acosta's weight is all a old school steel hip implant. This fight is also boring. It resembles a heavyweight bout in the speed and activity of the combatants. Naturally, a win here probably makes one a top contender to fight Joe Calzaghe (zing!). The basic underlying issue with this thus far is that Casanova's jab is controlling the action to the pont where his opponent is afraid to do anything, and so Casanova can't counter. So there is staring. Casanova lands something and Acosta fires back and hurts his opponent. The last 90m seconds feature a lot of both men throwing hyper wild and missing. Its like watching a pair of dudes from D-League see who can sink the most half court shots.

ROUND 3! I forgot to not use shift and so it came out as "ROUND #" the first few times I typed. The ref looks like the dad from Addams Family. MOAR swinging and missing. Acosta lands and Casanova goes back into the ring. Half of the effectiveness of his attack now involves rushing in after his wild right hand punches with the crown of his head. Mouthpiece falls out of Acosta's mouth due to the heavy duty clinching. Casanova tries to do something approximating combination punching. Acosta is throwing haymakers like all get out. It is like watching someone play Fight Night Round 3 in slow motion. Casanova with some solid shots at the bell. My ass hurts from sitting in one place. 

Round 4 and no one is still reading. Acosta moves his head and the announcer is calling jabs that are not there. He is still excited, perhaps because someone is paying for his input re: this event. Acosta's wild swinging has been dulled by punches to the face in repetition. Not that there were tons, but apparently he doesn't have enough in him to continue with such a game plan. Casanova plods some more and wins the round. 

Round 5: 

Acosta, no jab

'Nova inept, on canvas

bedsore on my ass?

There is excitement! Casanova has no defense and is hurt by a counter left hook thrown by an off balance Acosta, who follows it with a short right uppercut. My hope that the fight would end is dashed by the minimal time remaining in the round. Casanova is warned of headbutts in round 6 even though the other guy is leading with his head. Acosta is still throwing Street Fighter 2 punches, and a right hand/left arm throw drops Casanova again. Another set of haymakers leads to a standing 8. Acosta is all sorts of wild. Big left hook drops Acosta again and its TECHNICO TECHNICO TECHHHHHNICO. Oh thank god. I've been in the car for like 5 hours today and sitting at slot machines and tables for another 2. Being this inert just loses value after feasting like I and everyone else in the country had. 

Stretching/Fast forwarding/drinking some water: swing bout time! FABIO SASTRE SILVA is pro two years going, 5-3-1, 3KOs, and hails from the boxing hotbed of, uh, Montevideo, Uruguay. He promotes subaltur.com, which apparently sells houses for tourist rental. Well. WELLLLLLLL. Right up my alley, fo sho. Next dude is very popular. He is JAVIER MACIEL, is reppin' Florida and has a record of 8-0 with 4 KOs. Why is he in Argentina? No idea.

Maciel may have actually lost the first because he didn't do anything. He fights with the fluidity of C-3PO. Seriously, I wonder if the names given were wrong. Maciel fights like this is points fighting. He is better skilled and more athletic but seems to lack connecting his movements to fighting. Silva probably scraps for free at his local pub or cantina or whatever. Round 3 starts and all I can think is that Maciel raped someone and is avoiding capture. He begins to do things that enthrall as this round starts to end, landing some nice uppercuts. The sorta white guy is hurt with such an uppercut about midway through round 4 but hangs tough. INSERT POP REFERENCE. 

JESUS TE DA LORD says a ringpost. Separation of church and sport? Apparently not here. This is a god that's an awesome god because he's way into pugilism. TRADING OF PUNCHES! LACK OF DEFENSE! Dana would tell you that if boxing wasn't broken, this is what would excite the masses. Then again, I think the masses don't give a shit about Nate Quarry. Could be just me. Meanwhile, the rapist is walking down the guy who can't really box well and then just drops his hand and gets hit and then backs off before reestablishing the chase (which is, unlike what some would claim, is not necessarily better than the catch). Its not that this is bad, just wholly ordinary. 

In the 6th, the punches of the floridian land with graet accuracy. Pretty much everything makes contact, but the second the Uruguian throws punches, Machiel stops. Fight ends because apparently it was only a 6 rounder. Thank goodness. Maciel wins a unanimous decision, crowd is happy.

Heavyweight Top 50

I'm doing this somewhat privately. There will be one probably almost exactly like this posted on Total-MMA prior to the Wladimir Klitschko/Alexander Povetkin bout.

CHAMP: I haven’t had one listed in years. Rules for me filling this are: A) unify three belts OR B) #1 and #2 fight. This is similar to The Ring’s rule, except that I’m not gonna bend to HBO’s demands to make guys champ (see also: Klitschko, Vitali)

1 ) Wladimir Klitschko (-): No change.

2 ) Alexander Povetkin (+1)

3)  Vitali Klitschko (NEW):  To be honest, I hate doing it this way. I find it difficult to justify anything else though. Here is why:

-Vitali Klitschko beat a guy ranked one higher than Povetkin, and did so in splendid fashion....but its his first win over a top ten ranked fighter since I saw the Sanders fight in a hotel room in Kileen, TX. That was April 2004. Furthermore, its only his third win over a top ten ranked heavyweight ever in his 12 year (w/4 year layoff) career. 

-While Povetkin has not faced a fighter that was ranked as high as Peter, he has beaten a pair of top 50 heavyweights (Donald and Ahunanya), a top 15 heavyweight (Byrd) and a top 10 heavyweight (Chambers) in the last 2 years. Combining all that, its far more impressive than a single win.

-Peter is deeply flawed. Yes, he beat McCline, but did he look good? Sure, he beat James Toney twice on my card, but was it impressively done the first time? Does it matter anymore now? Chambers, Donald, and Byrd may all be flawed, but Byrd beat Vitali Klitschko during their meeting, Donald went ten rounds with him (not to mention the Valuev fight), and Chambers has looked fairly solid since.

4 ) Nicolay Valuev (+1)

5 ) Ruslan Chagaev (-1) This is an enormously tough choice as well. Chagaev beat Valuev and was pretty decisive about it, to boot. Valuev then went and looked horrible against Bergeron and it looked all over for the giant. Wins over John Ruiz (the #6 heavyweight last time I did the list) and Sergei Lyakhovich (who was somewhere in the top 20) are far better than Chagaev's comparative resume of numerous cancelled fights and Matt Skelton. 

6 ) Juan Carlos Gomez (+7): You know what beating a top 10 heavyweight does for you? A lot. Gomez beating Virchis shocked some, but I wasn't in that boat at all. He's 35 and grossly over his best fighting weight of about 200-205, and yet he's smoking a lot of the guys he's fought. He's the WBC mandatory for Vitali Klitschko but I can't imagine that fight actually happening. Defines "risk/reward" in the sport and everything. Maybe he can fight Peter for a vacant belt?

7 ) Samuel Peter (-5): If Gomez is talent and potential realized, Peter is the opposite. He argurably lost three of his last five.

8 ) John Ruiz (-2):  You may be surprised to see Ruiz still here. Its not as if Valuev smoked him in their second fight (though it was a better fight for Valuev) and he's still a threat to anyone at the upper end. 

9 ) Sultan Ibragimov (-2): Where is this guy?

10 ) Eddie Chambers (-): Eddie recently beat Livin Castillo at some card at the Blue Horizon. I'm not really sure what his career has in store but he's sadly one of the best this country has for the weight.

11 ) Vladimir Virchis (-3)

12 ) Tony Thompson (-3): Both recently picked up Ls against better fighters. Thompson's performance was as much impressive as it was depressive about Wladimir Klitschko. Virchis ended up fighting someone who's basics are far improved.

13 ) Oleg Maskaev (-2): Beat Robert Hawkins since the Peter loss. Nothing I can say because I've not seen it. Hawkins isn't a bad fighter though and to come back and take a good placeholder like that makes it appear that Maskaev has some sort of future. Not a bright one, mind you.

14 ) Taras Bidenko (+1)

15 ) Lamon Brewster (+3): Wait, Alan...Lamon Brewster is finished! You keep saying that, right? Well, I did. But:

-his record in the last 4 years is pretty damn good outside of, you know

-he stopped Batchelder, even if he was getting outboxed virtually the whole fight.

16 ) James Toney (-)

17 ) Hasim Rahman (-)

18) Shannon Briggs (-4) : Heavyweight graveyard.

19 ) Alexander Dimitrenko (-)

20 ) Chris Arreola (-): Neither man has stepped up at all. Arreola's next big fight is against Travis Walker. Honestly, if Walker can do what he's capable of, Arreola is fuuuucked. Problem is that Walker can easily be outworked.

21 ) Matt Skelton (-)

22 ) Kali Meehan (-)

23 ) Jameel McCline (-)

24 ) Fres Oquendo (-)

25 ) Sergei Lyakhovich (-)

26 ) Kevin Johnson (-)

27 ) Monte Barrett (-)

28 ) Andrew Golota (-)

29 ) Odlanier Solis Fonte (-)

30 ) Travis Walker (-)

31 ) Ray Austin (+1)

32 ) Luan Krasniqi (-1)

33 ) Jean Francois Bergeron (-): Virtually no significant wins among this pool. Ray Austin beat Domonic Jenkins and Solis has beaten Chad Van Sickle and Chauncey Welliver in the closest everyone from #21 to #32 had to beating others since July.

34 ) Jason Estrada (-): Wasted talent.

35 ) Danny Williams (-): Notable, as he has two opponents in November. He hopes to KO John McDermott quickly so he can fight Frans Botha with no ill effects.

36 ) David Tua (-)

37 ) Davarryl Williamson (-)

38 ) Timor Ibragimov (-)

39 ) Malik Scott (-): More mediocrity.

40) Cedric Boswell (NEW): For a good portion of his fight with McCline, looked like the future. Then he was KOed. Recently was brought in as a sacrifice for Roman Greenberg and ruined that dude in 2.

41 ) Michael Sprott (-1)

42 ) Denis Boystov (-1)

43 ) Francesco Pianeta (-1)

44 ) Chazz Witherspoon (-1)

45 ) Sinan Samil Sam: 

46 ) Oliver McCall 

47 ) Friday Ahunanya 

48 ) Michael Grant 

49 ) Brian Minto

50) Evander Holyfield (NEW) : Again, very few changes.

Juan Manuel Lopez vs. Cesar Figueroa (WBO Junior Featherweight Title) 10-04-08

Lopez is a guy i first saw on the under card of that fucking pointless Lockett/Pavlik PPV. He absolutely obliterated Ponce De Leon inside of 1 round. I have been looking forward to seeing him fight again ever since. Epic intro from Lopez complete with pyro straight from 1998 WCW. I know nothing about Figueroa (bare with me here). I'm going to assume hes been brought in to give Lopez an easy win.

Round 1: ohhhhhh man, jab followed by a big right hand and Figueroa is down. first punches of the fight. I don't think hes getting up. And he doesn't. WOW. Dude has some serious power in his hands. 47 seconds of the first round. KO Victory for Lopez and he didn't take one punch.

Content...

Or lack of it on my part. I'm going to start picking up the pace here soon and adding more content to this, the only way for me to get better is to watch and write more about both sports. I think Alan has a few things in the works as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Telefutura: 8/29 & 9/5/08

Okay, I actually watched these last week, but I take notes, you know? One of these days, I'll sit with the laptop in front of the TV. I prefer to be as unencumbered as possible though when watching boxing these days.

8/29:

Latif Mundy vs. Rudy Cisneros: Rudy's only professional loss was to Norberto Bravo over 5, whereas Mundy is a guy who's gotten decent TV time this year out of Philly. Good even fight on paper, and it was that way in reality also. Each round was extremely close, and I was often scoring rounds on single blows that appeared to be the best of their respective rounds. Cisneros won the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 7th in the 8 rounder to win the fight on my card 76-75. The deciding factor was a point deduction in the 8th round against Mundy due to a low blow. Following that, Mundy sensed something was needed to secure a win, and he attacked Cisneros with everything he had. It simply wasn't enough. Cisneros won a unanimous decision, officially.

Pedro Martinez vs. Reshawn Scott: Two nondescript fighters at the cruiser limit.

Scott was taller and had slightly better skills than Martinez, but was hurt in the first round during an exchange. In round 2, he was dropped hard and the fight was waived off. Not a great TV debut for him.

-CALDERON/CAZARES HYPE TIME!-

WHO? Mike Jones vs. Juliano Ramos: Jones has been given a slew of pretty easy opponents thus far in his young career. His 14-0, 12KO record displays this. Its not at all outlandish to say that his prior two opponents were the best fighters that he had faced in his career (Germaine Sanders & Gilbert Venegas). Ramos, on the other hand, is a young 15-1 fighter from Brazil, hardly a hotbed of boxing. He lost to Jonathan Tubbs, which generally isn't a good sign.

The first 3 rounds were a pretty horrible sight: Jones treated this as a sparring session, merely doing just enough to win but nothing to try and bring the fight to an end. Ramos did nothing, on the other hand. Jones finally began to put the pedal down a little in the 4th, hurting Ramos and keeping him offbalance most of the last minute. Ramos went to try and win it in the 5th, landing a good right hand of his own on Jones' chin, and found that it had no effect whatsoever. Ruh-roh. Jones took it out on Ramos in round 6, hurting him early on and putting him away in brutal fashion as Ramos tried in desperation to hold on. A good one for a highlight reels, but what I'll remember most is Jones' workman like attitude early on. It reminded me of Jermain Taylor and his terminal inability to push the pace offensively in all the wrong ways.

9/5:

I was really excited for this card. It was headlined by a favorite prospect of mine and had an interesting collision on the undercard.

Ray Sanchez III vs. Joaquin Zamora: Sanchez is a huge fraud, with a glossy record, close calls against the Patrick Thompsons of the world, and a stoppage loss to Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. Zamora seems like a perfect Sanchez opponent, with a loss to a totally nondescript opponent, then a draw later to an equally noteworthy foe, and then a second loss to Elco Garcia, a fairly well known journeyman/tomato can. He has racked up most of his wins in New Mexico, like Zamora, and had built up a fairly decent 15-2-1 record. My crack research also tells me he was ranked by the WBC for a second or two prior to this bout.

The opening round was close and competitive, but went to Sanchez on my card. It was totally overshadowed by round 2, in which Sanchez was nearly stopped as Zamora began to use the jab to set up his right hand. Sanchez suffered a cut that would cause the fight to be stopped in the following round. A bit unfortunate, but Zamora's win was totally legit. Sanchez, hilariously for a guy who's been on Telefutura numerous times, has middle school level spanish skills. He looks paunchy however, and given his last few performances, he may want to find another career.

Marcos Acosta/Ricky Vasquez: Local boys with records that don't inspire in a 4 round fight. The two men fouled each other numerous times, especially with headbutts and use of the shoulders, as well as displaying little defense or significant offensive skill. Vasquez won the decision.

Daniel Attah vs. Urbano Antillon: Antillon really hit the scene when he bombed out Bobby Pacquiao in a mere round. He's a strong puncher with great offensive skills and tight defense. Attah is a product of Nigeria, and he's fought for a world title on Showtime many moons ago agaisnt Acelino Freitas. He's not done very well in recent years, and was coming back from a long layoff following his loss to Mario Santiago.

Antillon and Attah just go on offense against one another right away, and Attah pays the price. Antillon was true to his form in the Pacquiao fight, forcing Attah to a knee in the third and to a ref stoppage in round 4. Attah was just outgunned by the larger man, who used a full array of punches to put him down and out.

Robert Marroquin vs. Gino Escamilla: I think I've seen Marroquin before on Telefutura in a similar role of being the swing bout. He was on the undercard of two different events they've televised this year. Escamilla I know nothing about and his 5-3-1 record indicates I need to do no serious research.

Marroquin won every single round of the fight on my card and was a clean 59-54 sweep on the judges cards. Escamilla was down in round 3, but Marroquin couldn't take him out. He looked like a poor finisher, to be frank.

Yutaka Niida vs. Roman Gonzalez (WBC Minimumweight Title)

Yutaka Niida vs. Roman Gonzalez (WBC Minimumweight Title 09-15-2008)

I haven't heard of either guy. This popped up on the boxing torrent site i use and i decided to give it a download seeing as how the little guys usually deliver in a big way. I also needed to kill time before the Arce/Conception Solis/Samudio torrent was finished downloading.

Round 1: Roman shows his power early and has Niida backing up for most of the round. Niida counters here and there but Gonzalez is lighting him up with clearly more powerful punches. 10-9 Gonzalez

Round 2: A hard right hook from Gonzalez gets Niida's attention early. Niida again is mostly on the defense here. Nice ripping shots to the body from Gonzalez. Niida doesn't land much of anything and his face is getting marked up already. 10-9 Gonzalez

Round 3: Gonzalez turning the pressure up very early and they start trading punches, Niida is up for it it seems. Things slow down after the initial flurry from both. Niida on his bike now avoiding Gonzalez. Gonzalez is an animal always coming forward landing big body shots and uppercuts. Nidda is not looking good at all. 10-9 Gonzalez

Round 4: Gonzalez must know Niida is ready to go. hes chasing him all over the ring, Niida letting a few combos off but it does little to discourage Gonzalez. Niida is really getting beat up now, his corner should think about stopping it. They stop it to check on a cut above Niidas eye and the Dr halts the bout in round 4.

Niida looked overmatched and Gonzalez showed why he's 21-0 with 19ko's.

BOXING: Free TV Wrapup 9/12-13

Telemundo, Telefutura, TYC Sports, and Showtime all showed free cards this weekend of varying quality, and I've actually found enough time in between dealing with our new pets (3 cats!) to watch them all.

8/12:

TELEFUTURA -

Here was a show with two undefeated prospects with Oscar paying their bills, and so there's some hope there that we'll have a decent show. Bzzzz. Wrong. Ex-Olympian Rock Allen was first out there and he drew another no hoper in a long line of them with Contender Season 3 competitor Brian Vera's brother Gilbert. This is year 4 of him being a prospect and he's still fighting guys that are 9-2 in 8 rounders. I mean, c'mon, what does that say about the faith his team has in him? Anyhow, Vera provides ample competition and forces Rock Allen to really try and work to win. Rock simply doesn't have the power in his punching to actually do lots of damage to Vera and thus stop him. So what we have in this fight was a one sided domination by Rock Allen where he does nothing to make the crowd believe he can stop Vera and gives Vera ample opportunites to fight back, as ineffective as it generally was.

The main event was between 22-0, 21 KO Argentinian Lucas Martin Matthysse in a bout with journeyman Rogerio Castaneda Jr. Castaneda has been in against, well, a ton of dudes. In fact, he was recently on Versus against one of the Peterson Bros. in a dull affair. This was actually pretty interesting because Castaneda provided some resistance until an accidental headbutt cut him and ended the fight in the 3rd. Bah.

Also making the show was a bout between 0-0 local boys Edgar Portillo and Pedro Sanchez won early in the 1st by Portillo. Fun and harmless. Karl Dargan/Jose Lozada showed up minus round 1 on the telecast as well after being taped early in the night. I barely paid attention to that, to be honest. Not the best show in Telefutura's history.

TELEMUNDO:

Adolfo Landeros has lost to plenty of good fighters and not so good fighters, so that a fighter such as him was brought in for the young Wilfredo Vasquez Jr. is no big surprise. He's the best guy Vasquez has ever fought but was nowhere near good enough. Solid back and forth for the first two rounds but Vasquez' athleticism, power, and size was far too much. Landeros ended up getting hurt repeatedly before finally getting stopped in round 8.

Also making TV was Roberto Lopez/Jonathan Robles. Robles ended up getting KOed brutally in round 3 after looking like garbage pretty much the whole bout. I think Michael Mendez/Jean Petit Homme may have made TV but I stopped paying attention around this point.

TYC SPORTS:

Opener for the night is Billi Godoy/Pablo Cortes. Cortes has a bunch of tats, Godoy doesn't. Also, Godoy is 11-0 and Cortes is 6-7. So, you'd think with differing records like that, Godoy is likely to win. And you'd be right. Cortes comes straight forward all night and in spite of never going more than 6 before, goes the distance of 10 rounds. He also didn't win a single round. Godoy has not much pop and for being a boxer/puncher type, he lacks the lateral movement and hands to do something.

Main event saw Aldo Rios take on Nazareno Ruiz for the Argentinan Lightweight title. Rios has fought only 4 times out of 49 fights outside of Argentina. Guess where he got his four losses? Ruiz is 26-11 and lost to Rios back in 2003. Good fight with Ruiz having moments of serious offense but Rios was generally able to beat Ruiz to the punch and win most of the rounds and begin to wear him down towards the end of the bout. No stoppage though in this fight, and the event left TV late.

SHOWTIME:

Oh man, I was so bummed when I heard that Guzman/Campbell was off due to weight issues with the former super bantamweight Guzman. But the card wasn't cancelled, so there was still something to watch.

Timothy Bradley/Edner Cherry, like the other bouts, wasn't one I really wanted to keep a scorecard over. Seemed pretty pointless with the fight being almost a total washout for Bradley. Cherry only won the 4th cleanly and got knocked down in the 7th (?) from a picture perfect right hand counter. Cherry recovered quickly and performed well down the stretch, but it was nowhere near enough to win. Timothy Bradley's win helps his case at 140 for validity, most certainly. He basically copied the success of Paulie Malignaggi, and given that he's a top 3 fighter at 140, that's a very good thing. However, there's a lot of deeply underrated talent at the weight that can pose a threat in the future should he get matched up with them (Naoufel Ben Rabah, Ricardo Torres, Randall Bailey, Kid Diamond, Willy Blain, etc).